Photo & Video Contributions
Those who are interested in contributing photos or videos can upload them to the Queensland Orchid International Facebook Group.
Excellent or exceptional photos and videos uploaded to the group may be featured here to provide exemplary visual documentations of Flower-Pollinator Relationship and Insect-Plant Relationship.
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[…] Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? (soundeagle.wordpress.com) […]
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[…] Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? (soundeagle.wordpress.com) […]
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[…] Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? (soundeagle.wordpress.com) […]
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Co evolution and symbiotic relationships are very common aspects of biology. A very fascinating area of study.
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Moreover, there is another version of this post published at https://queenslandorchid.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/do-plants-and-insects-coevolve/ where you will find the discussions at the comment section very engaging, and where there are seven superb videos available for viewing.
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Hi Sound Eagle,
You liked a comment I made on the Steve Says blog. I wanted to come over to say hi and introduce myself. Hi, I am Janice.
This seems like a great site for science lovers. My daughter is into science. I teach history and overlap with science often.
Nice to meet you.
Janice
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There are so many examples in nature of these symbiotic (I think that is the word) relationships that you can easily see how much by design it all is. We have a swan plant in the garden here in Auckland which, as I understand it, is the only plant monarch butterfly caterpillars eat, perhaps another example…although I am not sure what benefit the plant gets from this.
Also, going a little further than insects, I look at the Tui (NZ bird) drinking nectar from a flax plant and think how the beak is perfectly shaped and sized to fit into the flower buds. There are loads of examples in nature I suppose.
But where does mankind fit in to this…well…not sure we do…we are kind of embarrassing where ecosystems are concerned.
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Thank you for your interest in our article, Graham. It is quite common for insects to eat only a narrow range of plant species. Monarch larvae specialise in plants of the family Asclepiadaceae (commonly called milkweeds). Not all ecological relationships are mutually beneficial; probably the plant does not gain anything from this relationship, except perhaps some help from the adult butterflies in pollination.
Clear examples of coevolutionary relation ships between humans and other organisms are hard to find. One possible example may be with some strains of gut micro-organisms. Certainly, some of these seem to have important positive effects on human health, but I don’t know to what extent they have become adapted specifically to the environment of the human digestive tract.
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In symbiogenesis (or endosymbiotic theory), the evolution of eukaryotic cell in animals, plants and fungi could be considered as a case of coevolution to the extent that it began as a symbiotic community of prokaryotic cells or organisms. For example, inside plant cells are DNA-bearing organelles like the mitochondria and the chloroplasts, both descended and coevolved from ancient symbiotic oxygen-breathing proteobacteria and cyanobacteria respectively, and both were endosymbiosed by an ancestral archaean prokaryote, which (co)evolved into the cellular membrane.
Some scientists, especially those in the interdisciplinary fields of anthrozoology and zooanthropology, may be more inclined to entertain or conclude that the ongoing domestication processes involving humans and animals have been significant coevolutionary forces at work, especially with respect to the development and evolution of human civilization, and to the phenotypic variation and diversity of domesticated animals and pets. By the same token, plants such as wheat, rice and other staple crops and cultivated grasses (including the banana) as well as some hybridized or genetically modified ornamentals and food plants have been dramatically altered even to the point of being sterile or losing their self-seeding ability, their survival relying solely on being cultivated by humans. On the whole, the domestication of animals and plants has caused a rapid shift in the evolution, ecology and demography of both humans and numerous species of animals and plants. Like their human counterpart, these domesticated species have become some of the most abundant and widespread organisms on Earth.
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That’s a very fascinating and detailed post. I’ll have to reread this more closely later.
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May you enjoy springtime in Hong Kong excavating even more fun (and surprising) facts as the weather warms up!
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The most pertinent and/or awe-inspiring fun (and surprising) facts might eventually be incorporated into the body of this post.
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Thank you for sharing this brilliant article. And thanks for the links as well (I read most of the articles which you have linked). I have learned a lot.
I have been familiar with the concept of coevolution for quite some time but I didn’t give much thought about it. After reading this article and the linked articles, it made me ponder about this topic more.
Of course, it’s difficult to prove coevolution but I think that they did occur at some point, we may never know when. Based on the examples that this article has enumerated, it’s difficult to not give coevolution some consideration.
These links may interest you:
http://proof.nationalgeographic.com/2015/01/28/the-living-breathing-world-of-borneos-carnivorous-pitcher-plants/
http://bioblog.biotunes.org/bioblog/2007/10/02/cool-bug-9-acacia-ants/
Click to access 0121411.pdf
Regarding specialization, I can relate to that since this is also the case in mathematics. Even specialized fields like Algebraic Topology has many subfields. We may never see the likes of Archimedes and Euler. Perhaps Henri Poincaré and Hilbert were some of the last people who have a great understanding of the different branches of mathematics. Clifford Pickover speculated that the most knowledgeable mathematicians alive today may only know about 5% of the entire corpus of mathematics, though I suspect that it’s a lot less.
Having so many types of “-ologists” out there cause most people to not care about their research that much because they are too specialized for the “outsiders” to comprehend. As Henry Ward observed, “An expert is one who knows so much about so little that he neither can be contradicted nor is worth contradicting.”
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Hello Edmark! It has been a while since we interacted here regarding the “fun facts (and figures)” of the coevolution of plants and insects. SoundEagle would like to take this opportunity to inform you that the expansive Foreword by SoundEagle has been further improved and extended.
You can probably still remember SoundEagle mentioning to you in this comment that “[t]he most pertinent and/or awe-inspiring fun (and surprising) facts might eventually be incorporated into the body of this post.” Your feedback is indeed a testament to your engaging and productive nature, as can be seen in your avid response to SoundEagle welcoming you “to include within your forthcoming feedback on this post many fun (and surprising) facts about orchids, (co)evolution and/or any other subject matters discussed in this post.”
Indeed, your excellent and multifaceted feedback, which contains several informative weblinks, has brought positive outcome and further impetus to this post and its twin. Upon visiting the corresponding webpages and consulting additional sources, SoundEagle learnt that “myrmecophytes”[11] are indeed valid examples of coevolution, and therefore prompted Dr Craig Eisemann to add a new section, which he completed and titled “Ants and Plants”. Please be informed that both Dr Eisemann and SoundEagle appreciate your feedback and would like to express our gratitude towards you here.
In addition, your matching SoundEagle’s comparison of Charles Darwin and modern-day academics/researchers specialized in natural science (or science in general) with your parallel comparison of generalists such as Archimedes and Euler against modern-day highly specialized mathematicians, highlights some of the most intractable predicaments of conducting research and being researchers, many of which can readily lead to even more serious ramifications in the future, unless certain long-term solutions can be found or engendered through artificial intelligence, neural networks and expert systems.
Undoubtedly, our interactions in the comment section of “Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? 🥀🐝🌺🦋” demonstrate that there are plenty of common interests and intellectual momenta here to resonate with the caveats and concerns discussed in certain parts of the Foreword by SoundEagle as well as your esteemed feedback and SoundEagle’s first, second and third comments on set theory in your post entitled “101 Mathematical Trivia”. Therefore, SoundEagle would like to augment all of our comments, discussions and contributions with the following articles, whilst acknowledging some of the most influential aspects, issues and relationships within and between arts, sciences and mathematics:
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I have seen few blog sites that have placed this much time and effort into creating an experience that reaches the depth of real sensory stimulation. I commend ALL your effort. Wonderful post!
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Hello Dr Jonathan! As the festive season is drawing to a close and February is just around the corner, SoundEagle hopes that you have had a wonderful time celebrating the dawn of 2018 whilst having a great holiday with your family and friends.
Thank you for your visit and compliment, and for being observant about, and receptive towards, the presentational and experiential aspects of the post, beyond what its diverse and analytical contents convey about the coevolution of plants and insects 🥀🐝🌺🦋. Hence, SoundEagle has good reasons to be truly delighted by your regarding the post to be wonderful.
Also comparable in quality, expanse and “the depth of real sensory stimulation” is the most recent post, aptly named The Quotation Fallacy “💬”, which can firmly constitute excellent food for thought as well as a splendid guide for living a more examined life. May you find the post as enjoyable as it is edifying!
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[…] Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? 🥀🐝🌺🦋 (soundeagle.wordpress.com) […]
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[…] Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? 🥀🐝🌺🦋 (soundeagle.wordpress.com) […]
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Excellent. Thank you.
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Hello Gary,
Sorry for the very delayed reply. We are glad to have produced a post that you found useful. I have recently looked at your excellent website. You may be interested in some forthcoming posts, to do with environmental issues, evolutionary effects on human behaviours and human responses to the natural world, as well as various posts by SoundEagle🦅 on diverse topics that are already up on this site.
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Thanks for teaching me!
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Hello Peter,
My apologies for the very late response. We are pleased to have produced a post that was of interest to you. I have found that the more I learn about biological organisms and processes, the more I come to appreciate the beauty of their diversity and intricate adaptations. Please consider looking at other posts on this site, and also some forthcoming ones to do with environmental issues, human behaviours and human psychological responses to Nature.
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God made them all – all organisms – in their simplicities and complexities. God is behind them all – all happenings – in their endothermicities and exothermicities.
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A comprehensive demonstration that diversity is a source of strength, not weakness, a proven fact which certain modern political and religious creeds seek to sidestep!
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Hello Dave
Diversity is certainly a source of resilience in ecosystems, and it seems quite reasonable that a similar principle also applies to other systems, including human societies. We hope you will also find some interest in the quite diverse posts by SoundEagle🦅 on this site, as well as some forthcoming ones on topics such as human nature, human appreciation of the natural world and sustainability and conservation. Apologies for the very late response.
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Hi, and sorry for my reply delay! I will certainly return to your site as science, a key to future understanding, underpins your work.
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Thank you, Dave; I hope we will be able to meet your expectations in forthcoming posts. Looking forward to your future comments.
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Thank you Dave, I hope we can meet your expectations in future posts.Looking forward to your comments in future
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Beautiful examples of something I would not think many people would disagree; indeed, it would be strange, if plants and insects would not co-evolve? i wonder if despite all these arguments, the phylogeny was done on these orchids? DNA sequence can reveal if there is an inter-species relationship or not. if yes, the role of insects is a more favorable factor. Continuing this thought, if flower preparation can be sequenced and the DNA of the same insect can be detected in several different species? Pure speculation of a potential experiment:))
another comment if on Wiki definition of abiotic factors that cannot be co-evolved since they are not living. Somewhere i read ( sorry cannot provide a ref) about one study of how animals and plants affect abiotic factors and those affecting them back- I do think this have a right to defined as co-evolvolution. but this indeed might spark arguments ( especially from evolutionary biologists:))
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Hello Anastasia, and thank you for taking the time to read and comment on this article. Soundeagle has just alerted me to your comment and also wishes to convey his greetings.
I agree that it could reasonably be expected that organisms engaged in a close and mutually important ecological relationship would affect each other’s evolution. However, producing definite proof that this has occurred in particular cases can sometimes be difficult.
As regards your second question, although I am not sure that I fully understand your proposed experiment and admittedly speaking as a non-molecular biologist, I cannot see how DNA sequencing could shed much additional light on whether a coevolutionary relationship with another organism has developed. Related species such as plants or insects of a particular family or genus, whilst sharing much of their genetic material because of their phylogenetic relationship, may differ genetically from each other for a variety of reasons besides the development of coevolutionary relationships by some of their members, and the genetic basis of many of the characters selected in the development of such relationships may be complex and not understood. Even where the genetic basis of a character that is suspected to have evolved as a result of a coevolutionary relationship is known, its presence in the genome of an organism probably does not add any information than could be inferred from the presence of the character itself.
With regard to you third question, while it is certainly true that organisms are influenced in their evolution by abiotic factors and that many organisms can in turn affect abiotic factors (such as the composition of soils and of the atmosphere), the term evolution as used here is normally considered to apply only to living things, resulting as it does from natural selection operating ultimately on their genome. Any effects of organisms on abiotic components of the environment seem to constitute a fundamentally different process.
Once again, I am grateful for your interest, and hope that you will also read future posts on this site.
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Hello Anastasia! Your comment is quite excellent indeed. It is heartening that you have given so much thought on the many aspects of coevolution discussed in this post, even mentioning DNA sequencing and consulting Wikipedia on the definition of abiotic factors. Your inquisitiveness and engaging attitude are to be highly commended, as is your effort in reading this protracted and multifaceted post.
SoundEagle wonders what your favourite plants and insects are. Do you grow some plants and keep certain insects?
Given the time of the year, here is a very special post with somewhat belated 🎊 Season Greetings from SoundEagle: Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Joyful Holiday 🎄🎅⛄ to you and your family!
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Hello SoundEagle,
Thank you so much for your reply . I personally do not keep any insects. Regarding plants, years ago I owned a cactus collection. It was amazing to try to cultivate them from seeds- I guess, that was as far as I went with it. Moving to a different country made it impossible to carry plants with me- so it went to friends…
I found the post super interesting- as many other readers. Especially the way you explain the phenomenon of co-evolution. To be honest, I am very happy that see lots of comments for your post from people of different backgrounds.
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Just would like to add a little note about co-evolution. These days it becomes a common wisdom to take probiotics for a healthy digestion. So one of the pints is the co- evolution of microbiome and the organism. And we know, it does change now, when many of us eat sterile food and leave is cleaner conditions but in highly populated areas.
On another note, I wonder about your background? Are you a scientist?
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Possible coevolutionary relationships between animals and their symbiotic microorganisms are an interesting topic for further research, especially in view of accumulating evidence that the composition of the gut microflora in particular has significant effects on human health.
Although not a professional scientist in the traditional sense as a result of going against the grain to adopt or create artful, novel, multidisciplinary and unorthodox approaches to researching, writing and publishing, SoundEagle nevertheless has a strong interest in many scientific questions and endeavours. In addition, SoundEagle has informed me that more scientists can and should be much better informed by the philosophy of science, the history of science, and the sociology of science.
On the other hand, I am a (rather prematurely) retired biologist, trained particularly in Entomology, but having interests in a wide variety of other subjects.
Please stay tuned for three additional posts to appear on this site fairly soon.
Best wishes, and thank you again for your interest.
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You have not only great insight into problem but also beautifully written posts! I totally admire your ( both of you) writing. A talent plus education. Bravo!
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Hi Anastasia! How have you been since the dawn of February?
Thank you for your keen interest in, and kind compliment on, our co-authored post here. As you can see, the numerous interrelationships and interspecies dynamics uncovered by certain scientists in the ongoing coevolution of plants and insects 🥀🐝🌺🦋 are far more intricate and manifold than most people have realised. What a multifarious affair coevolution can be!
Like you, those who are highly perceptive and very thorough with their reading of Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? 🥀🐝🌺🦋 can indeed become far more appreciative of the complexities incurred in answering such a question, which can significantly entail and benefit from going beyond the straightforward approach of presenting a series of major research findings and milestones through conducting a substantial literature review, insofar as the style, content and delivery of this post have demonstrated such entailments and benefits to a considerable degree via interactive, visually vibrant and intellectually engaging discussions in both the post and the comment section.
Please be invited to reread Dr Craig Eisemann’s amended and extended comment to you dated 30 January 2018 at 8:16 AM.
You are also cordially invited to be our esteemed reader of the following posts, chosen especially for you:
Given that St Valentine’s day is just around the corner, may you enjoy visiting 🦅 SoundEagle in Love and Dove, Art and Heart on Valentine’s Day with Gifts 🎁💝🕊💌💘!
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Thank you so much! I will be more than happy to read it!!
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Hello Anastasia! We have not heard from you and hope that life is treating you well in February, during which the big festival known as Lunar New Year is being celebrated all over the world for 16 days, as explicated in the encyclopaedic post 🦅 SoundEagle in Chinese New Year Celebration, Spring Festival, Lion Dance, Traditional Culture and Architecture 🏮🎋🦁⛩.
Given your academic interests in evolutionary biology, botany, biochemistry and genetics, the following posts published by SoundEagle🦅 at ✿❀ Queensland Orchid International ❀✿ are recommended to you:
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Hello Anastasia
Thank you for your kind words. You may be interested to know that Soundeagle, who has considerable expertise in fields including Computer Science and Social Sciences, has a linked-in profile which can be viewed at
https://www.linkedin.com/in/soundeagle
I hope we can maintain or improve our standard in future posts!
Best regards
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Hello Graig Eisemann and Sound Eagle! I am very happy to connect with you on LinkedIn ( I sent the invitation to the LinkedIn profile you mentioned in your post). Your point that there is a great need for scientific philosophy for scientists is extremely important. As a person who is busy with experiments and have little time to think more than my area of expertise ( and that is not very successful either), I feel that unbiased view on where we move and how this integrates with other aspects of our activities is a must! Have a nice week!
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Hi Sound Eagle,
Look at how much time you put into all this. Quite a compilation! My husband watches many animal shows and my daughter loves science.
As far as I go, your eagle theme resonated with me. Once, in Alaska, I saw a bald eagle. I’d like to go to Alaska to see bears but I teach and they aren’t visible when I can go.
You liked a comment I made on Sam’s blog. I wanted to come by to say hi and introduce myself.
Janice
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Hello Janice
Apologies for the very late reply. We are happy that you appreciated our efforts!. You may also be interested in some other posts on this site, including 🦅 SoundEagle in Debating Animal Artistry and Musicality 🎵🐕🎶🐒🎹🐘🖼🐬🎨. There should also be some new posts to do with evolution, Nature and conservation in the future.
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I’m thoroughly impressed by your work here. Please pass my appreciation onto SoundEagle. WE have ospreys and golden eagles here in Scotland who send their greetings
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Soundeagle and I are grateful for your kind comments. Please convey our best wishes to the Scottish raptors.
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Wowee, what a blog! Very comprehensive. Insects and plants are so tight. As a silly thought-experiment, if insects evolved into the sentient organisms that we became, I can only imagine how influential plants would be in their art and culture, given their primordial co-relationship.
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Hello Jesse
Thank you for reading and commenting on our post. It is interesting to consider what influences the biology of a hypothetical intelligent species might have on its culture. Edward O. Wilson once performed a thought experiment of this kind with termites, concluding that a termite species with human-like intelligence would, among other cultural values, abhor personal reproduction (except for the reproductive caste), embrace cannibalism of the aged and infirm and make a sacrament of the exchange and consumption of faeces.
However, it seems unlikely that an insect could attain a level of cognitive function similar to that of humans, at least without radical changes to its body plan and physiology. Humans have perhaps five orders of magnitude more brain neurons than even such a behaviourally complex insect as a honeybee. Miniaturization of neurons and increasing organizational efficiency of brain structures would have finite limits; the evolution of intelligence comparable to that of humans would therefore require a great increase in the size of the central nervous system and hence of the whole insect. This would most likely push the insect into a size range where its body plan would be much less efficient than that of similarly-sized vertebrates, so that inability to compete with these would probably terminate evolution in this direction well before human-like cognitive capacities were reached.
Nevertheless, the theoretical possibilities for the culture and cultural products of a cognitively advanced animal with a biology radically different from that of humans are fascinating to consider.
I hope you may be interested in some forthcoming posts on this site, the first to do with some human mental proclivities and their current effects on the biosphere.
Warmest regards and best wishes
Craig
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Perhaps you could indeed imagine yourself as one of the “insects evolved into the sentient organisms that we became,” and then “imagine how influential plants would be in their art and culture, given their primordial co-relationship.” Looking forward to hearing from you and seeing your artworks in collaboration with SoundEagle🦅! Happy mid-September to you, Jesse!
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Interesting thoughts. Mother nature never ceases to amaze. We humans need to take care!
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We are pleased that our post inspired your interest. You may also like some other posts on this site, including 🦅 SoundEagle in Debating Animal Artistry and Musicality 🎵🐕🎶🐒🎹🐘🖼🐬🎨, and others, relating to evolution and environmental conservation, still to appear.
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[…] via Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? 🥀🐝🌺🦋 […]
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WOW! One of the most insightful and informative posts I have read to date. I love nature and we all coexist, like it or not. Thanks so much for sharing!
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We are happy that you found our post to be of interest. The relationship between insects and plants has long been an interest of mine, and the study of their mutual adaptations has long helped to stimulate my fascination with living nature. You may also like to see other posts on this website, for instance “🦅 SoundEagle in Debating Animal Artistry and Musicality 🎵🐕🎶🐒🎹🐘🖼🐬🎨“.
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Reblogged this on By the Mighty Mumford and commented:
IT IS TRUE–PLANTS AND ANIMALS EVOLVE OR ARE CREATED—TO CHANGE TO MAXIMUMLY INTERACT WITH THEIR ENVIRONMENT, OTHER ORGANISMS…AND RESPOND TO MANKIND’S FORCED MANIPULATION FOR HIS AND HER OWN PURPOSES. INDEED ALL ORGANISMS DO INTERACT IN ONE WAY OR OTHERS! SCHOLARLY AND DEFINITIVE WELL-DOCUMENTED RESEARCH. AND SPECIES DON’T CHANGE INTO OTHER SPECIES—BUT AS HERE, THEY ARE VERY ADJUSTABLE (OR NOT!). 🙂
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A very comprehensive and fascinating affirmative answer to the question posed!
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Please accept our belated thanks for your attention to our post. Much in evolutionary biology is of necessity rather speculative, but in the case of evoluionary interactions between these two groups of fascinating organisms, there seems to be quite strong evidence that coevolutionary processes have occurred.
You may also be interested in other posts by SoundEagle🦅 on this site, including 🦅 SoundEagle in Debating Animal Artistry and Musicality 🎵🐕🎶🐒🎹🐘🖼🐬🎨.
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Dear friend,
I have nominated you for the “Mystery Blogger Award” – congratulation, my friend 🙂
For more details:
https://didisvgp.wordpress.com/2018/07/28/thank-you-for-the-mystery-blogger-award/
All good wishes
Didi
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Your own response to the award, as seen at your recent post Thank you for the Mystery Blogger Award, is both amiable and amicable. You are now cordially invited to experience a special kind of response and writing from SoundEagle🦅 at this particular post:
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Intriguingly fascinating art and thoughts. It’s different and I thoroughly enjoy unique writings- especially nature. Marvelous, simply marvelous!
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Thank you, Mr Lance Sheridan, for your visit and compliment. You are receiving a very belated reply as it has been a very busy time. Happy mid-September to you!
Given your penchant for writing poems, SoundEagle🦅 would like to present you with an opportunity to write a poem to be featured here in this post. Assuming that you have indeed read the entire post, you would have noticed the featured poem at Co-Existence, a Poem by Cheryl KP. Stylistically and lengthwise, you are free to experiment. Your poem can be submitted via ✉ Email or via the Comments page.
In addition, you are also welcome to submit one or more poems based on your reading and appreciation of some or all of the following posts:
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A pleasure! Your’s is an excellent site. I’m very grateful for your response!
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A delightful encyclopedia of knowledge that fed my love of plants, Bees, Butterflies and Orchids.. Remarkable knowledge.. ❤
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Dear Sue,
Belated thanks for your appreciation of our post. I have always found that an evolutionary perspective on living things tends to enhance my appreciation of their wonderful diversity, complexity and compatibility with their living and non-living environment. I hope you will be similarly gratified by other posts on this site, including some planned future ones.
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You are welcome, and your blog is a mind of information. 🙂
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This is a fascinating article, which I admit took me two days to read. It’s so densely packed with information!
The fact that Darwin predicted the existence of the Morgan’s Sphinx Moth forty years before it was discovered is poetic justice if I ever saw it. It begs the question, why did the flower’s morphology become so extreme? Surely if the adaptation were to exclude some non-beneficial insect, why didn’t its “nectariferous spurs” stop at 9 or 10 inches? Why did they have to go all the way to 11.5 inches?
I read through some of the papers you linked to but it’s tricky when you have to look up the definition of every second word haha! Although I didn’t find my answers, I’m grateful that you sent me on such an illuminating adventure. Articles like this open one’s eyes to the world. Thanks.
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My apologies for the late reply. Thank you for making the effort to read and understand this article in such detail; I’m sure not everyone would do this! In answer to your question, it is sometimes difficult to deduce why biological structures take the exact form that they do. It may have to do with the fact that natural selection must work with whatever random mutations turn up, even if they are not optimal in terms of function or efficient use of resources. Alternatively, I suppose it is possible that another co-adapted orchid-hawkmoth association, involving different species, may once have occupied the middle ground (in terms of corolla tube and haustellum length) between the one discussed here and shorter, more usual lengths, but that these two hypothetical species became extinct relatively recently, not allowing enough time for the relevant structures in A. sesquipedale and X. morganii to shorten to a more economical length.
Greetings and best wishes for the new year to both of you
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Hello Dear webmasters and readers;
Co-evolution is larger than most people guess;
It concerns all things on earth, and also all material in the universe;
The whole universe is ONE PROGRAMMED MACHINE running to a pre-defined goal;
and in each step during this course, human can observe new phenomenas,
just like in a train we can see so many different landscapes between each differents stations…
So the important for human to be in harmony with the universe is to observe objectively…
And good travel for you all ; Dear webmasters and reader…
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Thank you for reading our post. It would be interesting to consider the evidence that the universe is evolving according to a pre-determined plan, rather than as a result of an unguided interplay between “chance and necessity”.
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It is a pleasant fancy that humans are evolving to a greater fondness for cute animals and animals are evolving to look cuter to humans!
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The recognition of “cuteness” probably evolved because it encouraged the protection and nurturance of offspring, and it is interesting that it can often cross species barriers, especially among mammals. In view of the threat of human-caused extinction that hangs over an increasing proportion of species, it may indeed be advantageous for them to appear “cute” to humans, as this may increase their chances of survival, both as individuals and as species!
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Thank you for this very educational post! You obviously put a great deal of work and research into writing this. I can appreciate that! I think my brain may be bleeding now though…
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We are grateful that you have read and appreciated our work! It must contain a lot of new information for anyone not already familiar with this field. Both of us learned a good deal in preparing this post, and are pleased if our readers can also learn something from it, even though it may cost a bit of effort! Best wishes, and hoping that you will also read some of our future posts.
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Thank you. The post does contain much information that I was previously unfamiliar with. It is refreshing to find an educational blog about this subjects and I look forward to reading (slowly & with english dictionary at my table) your future posts!
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Thank you, Mliae, for your visit, comments and compliment, as well as for recognizing the educational value of this special post. Whilst you passively wait for future posts to be published, you are very welcome to actively visit other educational posts to whet your intellectual appetite. Moreover, if your web browser can run Adobe Flash Player properly as it loads the contents of this website, then you will also be able to play games, solve puzzles and/or see more animations, which may indeed counteract over-exertion and stop your brain from bleeding. Happy February and Happy Exploring those posts!
Yours sincerely,
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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I do not have time to do this lengthy article justice at the moment. In fact, I,d given up reading within the areas of academics or bordering upon it awhile ago, with the occasional exception of philosophy. But nature, genetics, evolution, Darwinism, and Neo-Darwinism (biology as ideology) are all areas I once was quite taken by. I noted too that you veered off into problems with the current structure of academics midway, and I too read B.V.’s article about why he departed the fold. (BV and I also had some dialog awhile back & he looked at one of my longer essays.) So, I will try and make time to get back to this post for a deeper commentary.
But meanwhile, I will mention that just last week I was watching one of David Attenborough’s wonderful video essays concerning plant/animal cooperations, and I was struck with an interesting intuition. The species involved were a kind of flower with deeply recessed nectar (I believe a red helliconia) and a specific humminbird with a purposed long curved beak. The relationship between these two were such that the bird fed exclusively upon that flower’s nectar while the flower’s relied exclusively upon that bird’s pollination techniques. An interesting all-your-eggs-in-one-basket evolutionary sidepool. The intuition, which I have not had time to develop and articulate better, had to do with the spiritual cooperation between the generating forces (the “ideas”) behind these two disparate species… how they must indeed have a singular and peculiar spiritual relationship in the world behind the physical. (This is fairly typical for me since I do not limit myself to a materialistic, i.e. exclusively physicalist worldview). Plants physicalized on earth first, before animals. So the external evolutionary story, which restricts itself to the purely physical, cannot explicate the entire story here. There is something to understand from a different angle. I leave it there for now. Hopefully I can return.
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Hello Rob,
Thank you for your attention and thoughtful comments. For my part, I continue to be confident that explanations for biological processes can be found wholly within the physical realm. For example, I do not think that the appearance of two different groups of organisms at different times presents any difficulties for the subsequent development of coevolutionary relationships among some of their members – certain species of the second group to appear may develop ecological relationships with existing members of the first, influencing the further evolution of these and having their own evolutionary development affected by the interaction: it is not necessary for the relationships to begin upon the first appearance of both groups. Further, attempts to model the evolution of long sucking organs in various groups of animals and the corresponding evolution of long nectar-bearing corolla spurs in the flowers from which they obtain nectar have suggested that that this process is explicable in terms of conventional natural selection theory (please see my brief discussion of this and the references cited in this post).
It seems that your positing of the existence of non-material precursors of organisms in “the world beyond the physical” (and potential interactions among these) bears some relation to the Platonic theory of Forms. When you can find the time, you may like to elaborate upon these ideas.
Greetings and best wishes for the future!
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Hi Craig. Very long discussions seeded with this comment. But at the root of the disagreement is always: physicalism. I will offer simply one observation. It is no less a positing on your part, or the parts of materialists, than what you ascribe to me, when you say I point to extra-material phenomena (or ontology, or even causation). It is absolutely an assumption, a positing, on the part of physicalism that all things, including life forms are 100% explicable, eventually, in purely material terms. So… it is a meataphysical position, not a scientific one. And I can think of no possible scientific experiment (as science, biology, physics and so forth are presently and since the 1600s constrained) which would even address this positing. It is an article of faith. And before 1600 or so, it was not, it was quite the opposite. For my asthetics, better to do science, in hopes of reaching a less biased and more complete knowledge picture of all things, without this assumption at all. Cheers to you. 🙂
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Hello Rob,
I think I can appreciate something of your perspective, although for reasons of faith or otherwise, I continue to seek explanations for biological phenomena in physical terms. I hope you may be interested to read and comment on some future posts, dealing with topics such as innate human mental proclivities and their influences on human treatment of the biosphere, human emotional responses to the natural world, and issues to do with the development of environmentally sustainable economic systems
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Hi Craig, yes, sure. I will watch for these future thoughts of yours. The situation between us is not personal — one can always appreciate a fellow inquisitive nature. But as one gets older it is revealed as more and more important to devote one’s time to where priorities lie. For me, I see the physicalist mindset as a key linchpin, which if exposed to a more open perspective, would have the power to release the floodgates currently obstructing human cultural potential worldwide. The materialist conception is deeply insidious; so it is extremely difficult to get most people to admit it is in fact an assumption rather than some obvious default observation. Much of my work is devoted to subtly tugging against this assumption, be it with prose or poetry.
Interesting what you mention about human proclivities vis a vis the living earth. I do not know if the proclivities you think of are innate — I would initially resist this position. But we certainly are dropping the ball regarding stewardship of our biosphere. I would immediately note that it is quite likely that materialism, as an outlook, again has its fingerprints on this particular issue. If natural resources and species are merely regarded as ‘things’, collations of atoms and sub-atomic particles and so on, then it becomes much easier to approach life from a stance of being inured to the way we treat such things. Would be interesting to see why you feel certain attitudes are innate. I would mention here that if something like evolutionary psychology is involved in the reasoning, I find the contributions and underlying concepts around EP to be extremely suspect.
Environmentally sustainable economic systems: bravo. Let such systems also include socially and humanly sustainable and I am on board and eager to hear about them. Cheers, Craig.
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What a wonderful informative post and those pictures are so beautiful too!
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Thank you for coming to my blog. But I don’t believe in evolution. It’s a theory. None of it makes sense. As an example, the big bang. They never explain how it came to be. You can’t get something from nothing. Creation makes much more sense. Many things have been proven from the bible. And what hasn’t been proven may have been destroyed or something else. Take care.
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Thank you for taking the time to read our post. I hope you will also read some forthcoming posts on this site. Two of thse are to be book reviews that will have little or nothing to do with evolution, but with appreciation of nature and human use of materials throughout history.
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Thank you. I see that you do indeed have other writings which is fine too,
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Hello! Thank you for your comment. Please be informed that the layperson’s use and understanding of the word “theory” is very different from the same term used in modern science. For your convenience and edification, SoundEagle🦅 has included herein the Wikipedia entry of the term as follows:
In recent years, even the Catholic Church has had to accept evolution, though on a theistic basis. As for the pitfalls and fallacies of the design argument, visit the following:
http://www.iep.utm.edu/design/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/intelligent-design-trial.html
It will be nearly or altogether impossible to claim or prove that (the theory of) evolution is wrong or invalid, for it has been estimated that if evolution (both macro and micro) were wrong, then more than 99% of all scientific disciplines would be wrong too due to the high degree of cross-collaborations and confluences of data. That is not (just) SoundEagle🦅’s claim; and it is from some scientists who have made the interconnections and stocktaking of disciplines and knowledges. When creationists try to debunk certain parts and/or the whole of the findings of evolutionists or evolutionary scientists, they have cited certain problems with some scientific claims and/or techniques which rely on or are founded on mathematics, measurements, instruments, various disciplines and so on in very interconnected ways, and have been reliably used for a long time. For example, many instruments rely on the veracity and reliability of quantum mechanics, electronics and electrical engineering, which in turn rely on other disciplines such as physics, mechanical engineering, optics and so on… It is a very highly interconnected web.
By “cross-collaborations” (whether by design or by accident, whether independently or co-dependently, and whether concurrently or not), SoundEagle🦅 meant the cumulative results, benefits and synergies from the convergence of evidence from diverse disciplines and researchers who may or may not be collaborating and/or aware of each other’s findings and activities in the first place; and SoundEagle🦅 also meant that research(ers) on/in evolution and evolutionary sciences have relied and benefited, both directly and indirectly, fertilizations, findings, paradigms and techniques from diverse disciplines. Let SoundEagle🦅 quote Michael Shermer from his essay entitled “A skeptic’s journey for truth in science” as further examples:
Yours sincerely,
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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A very thorough mini-post that clearly explains the nature of of a scientific theory and outlines the strengths of the theory of evolution.
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The fundamental law cannot be overlooked. Dogs remain dogs, cats remain cats, plants remain plants. Those do not and cannot change period. Take care now.
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Awesome post. Thank you for sharing. Blessed are those who see plants and insects coevolve.🐝🌻
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We are grateful that you took the time to read our post. You may be interested in others on this site (by SoundEagle alone) and some forthcoming joint posts.
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Thank you. I will for sure take a look at the other posts. 🌺🐝
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I have written a short poem about the wonderful way a flower and a bumble bee 🐝 co evolve. You may be interested to find it on my blog.
It goes like this-
How to tell you
How to tell you what is sweeter than a drop of honey
Sweeter than a grain of sugar
Sweeter than the juice of a strawberry 🍓
How to tell you
Nothing is sweeter than your tongue
Melting like ice in my mouth
How to tell you what is a flower without a bumblebee
Or a bumblebee without a flower
Or….
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Thank you, Anita Bacha, for your visit, comments and compliment, as well as for sharing your lovely poem entitled “How to tell you
”. In the version of your poem shown in your comment above, SoundEagle🦅 can see that you have spiced up the poem with the two emojis 🐝 and 🍓, which are duly noted and appreciated here.
Happy May to you very soon and Happy Exploring other posts as you become even more familiar with the many special features and topics presented on this blog! Moreover, if your web browser can run Adobe Flash Player properly as it loads the contents of this website, then you will also be able to play games, solve puzzles and/or see more animations.
Yours sincerely,
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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Happy May to you too.
I am glad you visited my blog and read the poem ‘How to tell you.’ The illustrating picture was clicked by me in Borehamwood in England. It was in the month of July. I am not too sure the insect is a bumblebee. I observed it and others for a long time with my iPhone ready to catch a picture of the ‘bee’ busy drinking the nectar of the flower in a bush of berries.
I just love nature and its populace.
🦋🌻🐞🌸
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Thank you for sharing your delightful poem. Did you see the poem “Coexistence” by Cheryl KP in the post? Best wishes.
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Sadly I scroll up and down several times I don’t see the poem Coexistence.
Possibly it’s not loading on my lappie.
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The insect in the photo accompanying your poem is certainly a bumblebee, probably Bombus lapidarius or just possibly Bombus ruderarius. SoundEagle has requested me to ask whether you know what the flowers in this photo are: could they be hellebores?
By the way, you may be interested in SoundEagle’s recent long reply just above your first comment (21st March) explaining what constitutes a scientific theory and why the theory of evolution is soundly based.
Best wishes
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Thank you for the the response Craig. Matter of fact, Borehamwood is a shooting ground that offers family a range of shooting facilities, like clay pigeon etc. I was there with my family to experience gun shooting because it demands focus and concentration.
On the side walk, I heard the buzzing of bees 🐝 🐝 and I followed them to click pictures.
I have some more pictures. The bees were very busy devouring what was left of flowers in wild bushes.
If you wish I can send them to you by wats app or email.
I thank SoundEagle for his profound interest in the 🐝
Hopefully we will go clay pigeon shooting again this summer.
Anita
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Hi Craig
Hi SoundEagle
I forgot to tell you one important observation I made on the day I clicked the picture of the bumblebee (s).
We had to protect our ears because of the deafening noise of shooting. Yet the bumblebees and the flowers carried on with their romancing undisturbed by the sound of shooting.
They were peaceful and happy.
🌸🐝🌼🐝🌻🐝🌼🐝🌸
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Hello Craig, SoundEagle, I have posted a few pictures of our bumblebee(s). Please visit my blog and see ‘Flowering’.
Happy weekend to you both.
Anita
🌸🦋🌼🌻🐝
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Hello Anita,
Loud noises usually have little effect on insects, unless they drown out their auditory communications. I don’t have any personal experience of living bumblebees, as they do not occur in Australia, except for one species that was deliberately (and illegally) introduced into Tasmania in the early 1990s. I like to read accounts of exotic insects and other animals that I have not seen myself. Thank you for sharing.
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Hi Craig
Thank you for the clarification.
I am truly glad and thankful to you and SoundEagle to learn so much about insects.
I have posted a few pictures on my blog. Please have a look at my latest post ‘Flowering.’
En passant, I live in Mauritius and here, there’s no bumblebee.
We have the honey bee. It’s completely black in color, whereas the bumblebee is black and orange. It also uses its long arms to embrace the flower.
🌸🐝
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Pretty long post about this very interesting topic…
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This is just one example of a widespread and important phenomenon. I hope you will also read our forthcoming posts on other topics.
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I find it very lengthy too but very absorbing.
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I too have always found evolutionary processes very absorbing. I wish I could have specialized in this field during my research career! Many thanks for your interest.
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Thank you too
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I like this kind of subjects, but I don’t like to long texts. I don’t have any more patience for such a long reading…
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I respect your opinion.
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😊 10ks!
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Great post!
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Thank you for your interest. SoundEagle is now trying to restore the images that have been lost from the Gallery section. Best regards.
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Great!
Thank you very much
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Thank you Craig, I now see the poem Co-Existence of Cheryl KP 2017.
Awesome 🌹🐝❣️
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As I mentioned before the fundamental law states that plants remain plants, insects remain insects and so on. Noting evolves at all that’s why you can’t prove otherwise no matter what so-called science you base your claims on. Take care now.
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I am sorry that we cannot agree about evolution. However, I hope that you have found something of interest in our post, and wish you all the best for the future.
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I can assure you my dear that my friend, walking companion, and confidant that has never once reveled a secret is not a dog.
Without a doubt Michelangelo created the masterpiece called the “Mona Lisa”, but he never mucked with it afterwards. If it is perfect at conception what tweaks can make it better?
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I love and sometimes fear the true interconnectedness of it all and how I am stuck to the outcome of what others might be doing, but also thrilled at the glue that binds me to the butterflies and their habitat we saved from being chopped down around the local train station.
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My apologies for the very late reply. The interconnectedness of life is an important lesson for all of us, and something that we disregard to our great peril. I am pleased that we share an interest in conserving the fragments of the living natural world that still remain. Thank you for taking the time to read this post; I hope that you will find future posts on this website to be of equal interest.
Best regards
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The write-up is obviously very interesting, educative since it elucidates the inter-connection between different species and above all well researched. There is a connect between all the creations of the Mother Nature – one is incomplete without other. You have really given everything which essentially keeps the interest of the readers ticking. A must read write-up for information on correlation between all which is created by our CREATOR! Just wonderful to say the least. Regards.
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Hello Harbans! Thank you for your comment and compliment, especially with respect to your recognizing the interconnections of all lives on Earth.
SoundEagle🦅 has already notified Dr Craig Eisemann, the co-author of this post, of your freshly composed comment so that he may give you a reply at his earliest convenience.
Since you have mentioned twice that you are going to read and comment on the special post entitled “Khai & Khim: For Always and Beyond Goodbye”, SoundEagle🦅 is somewhat caught by surprise that you read and comment on this post first. You must have been very curious about or keenly interested in natural science in general as well as evolutionary biology and ecology in particular.
Looking forward to interacting with you in the said post published at https://soundeagle.wordpress.com/2019/08/31/khai-khim-for-always-and-beyond-goodbye/
Yours sincerely,
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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Hello Harbans; I am pleased that you found our efforts to elucidate this topic interesting and useful. The intimate relationships between, and the coadaptations of, insects and plants have long fascinated me and others, and I am sure that much remains to be discovered about the interactions between these vast and diverse groups of organisms. It is a tragedy that many of these species may be lost to the earth through human-caused extinction before they are appreciated by or even known to us.
Please accept my best wishes and invitation to read future posts on this website.
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My gratitude to you for your comments. In fact, we humans consider boundaries within which we live and interact an important one and leave all other creations by our Creator thereby losing the proximity of our approach to birds, plants, insects etc. and their inter-connection for enhancing and growth of echo-system which directly and indirectly help the humans. We are on the burning spree the jungles as has been happening in Amazon forests. How many of the species of plants, animals and birds have been lost only the CREATOR knows the best. These are not merely the ones which live overland and what about the ones which live by making burrows or holes for their living places by taking out earth or those birds living in their nests. Or other razing fires or the creatures living in the oceans; which are also dying due to throwing poisonous left-overs after our use in the seas.
I was brought up in a village which was near the forest area and there we used to go and enjoy every bit of songs which the Mother Nature created for us. I think, that was a good life when I used to run after a cat or dog or a rat, or a parrot, or played with plant like touch-me-not? We have now lost contact with all these and that is why we are suffering the pangs of different diseases which were not there when people used to befriend nature rather than cutting forests for habitation or burning forests for agriculture etc.
What a life it would be
if we care not merely for ourselves
but everything that our Lord has made
but our greed and ego
just spurs us to enhance our domain
at the cost of our fellow creations
Loving animals, birds, flora fauna
is always reciprocated
lets make friend with anything and everything that Nature contains in abundance
Cherish and enjoy it
All these will give us eternal joy
which we cannot get from any materials
which we enjoy for a moment
and then forget.
With regards,
HARBANS
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I much appreciate your heart-felt observations on the destructive results of the rampant and seemingly unstoppable “human enterprise” that seeks to convert ever more of the natural biosphere to human material use. Being in what nowadays is the somewhat unusual situation of again living in the house in which I grew up, I am in a position to see clearly the changes in the climate and in the composition and abundance of the surrounding fauna that have occurred as a result of human activities over a period of more than fifty years. You may also be interested in some forthcoming posts on this site, which attempt to address what is happening to the natural world and to explore some of the innate characteristics of human nature that influence the ways in which humans behave towards the living biosphere.
Once again, thank you for your interest and support.
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My heartfelt thanks for your inspiring commentary.
Factually, some of us are spoiling the echo-system, thereby spoiling the balance of nature, by so doing, the common man is suffering.
The contribution of good writers and well-wishers work for the well-being of the Mother Nature thus proving counter-productive. What is happening now in our cities and towns due to pollution impacting our health.
I shall go through your future write-ups for learning and adding to my knowledge.
WITH WARM REGARDS
HARBANS
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I hope that our forthcoming posts will be informative and interesting for you, and I look forward to interacting further with you when you have had an opportunity to read them. Please accept my best wishes for the future.
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Craig sir thanks a lot for informing me about your next post. I shall visit your blog and add to my know-how about our Creator’s creations which you assiduously research and bring to our domain.
I heartily reciprocate the wishes. God may bestow you strength and fortitude for educating us still more.
REGARDS
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Do you hav bees
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I believe so, there is an inherent symbiosis in nature. Balance & harmony is the result, mankind has forgotten we are a part of the whole, do not own anything, but merely stewards of this planet.
Th mystic Osho used to say, “If there were no trees then birds would not exist, conversely if the birds start disappearing then trees will too”!
We’re all interconnected. ❤
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Thank you for your observations on the relevance of this question to the wider issues you raise.
The subject of this post is increasingly topical in view of the “insect apocalypse” that is becoming evident in various parts of the world, and the implications that this holds for other forms of life. Unfortunately, the majority of our species seem not to apply their characteristic capacity for empathy and rational thought consistently to the predicament in which we and our fellow inhabitants of this planet are increasingly mired, but often to indulge atavistic, irrational drives and prejudices.
We hope to consider some aspects of this issue in a forthcoming post.
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two species who co-evolve are like two planets turning around each other, one may seem to turn around the other but both turn around a commun gravity point that may be or may be not inside of one of the planets
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Happy mid-April to you, Gérard!
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This is an interesting and thought-provoking analogy. For two interacting species, it is quite possible that Species A may have much less effect on the evolution of Species B than the reverse, if Species A is much less significant for the biology of Species B than vice versa. However, it is also likely, as your analogy suggests, that any two significantly interacting species will each have at least a slight effect, through selection pressure, on the other’s evolution, even if this is not readily apparent upon observation of the less-affected species.
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I point to the vast sums being spent to obscure the effects humanity is having on all our fellow co-evolutionists.
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What an interesting and very fascinating post. It’s clear you have such an in-depth knowledge and passion for this subject!
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Hello Rachel! Thank you for your comment and compliment. SoundEagle🦅 will soon notify Dr Craig Eisemann, a lover of moths and the co-author of this post, of your freshly composed comment, so that he too may enjoy your lovely poem entitled “Like a moth to your flame…” as follows:
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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Thank you, I’m so happy you enjoyed that poem. What a compliment you would think someone else might enjoy it too.
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The pleasure is mine, Rachel, as the previous bespoke reply is a stylish tribute to your poetic flair and your love of moths.
Dr Craig Eisemann will duly appreciate and be impressed by both your poem and the eye-catching golden moth. Hopefully, he will respond to your comment(s) within a day or two, as he is currently occupied by a few errands.
In addition, if you were to be so kind as to leave your feedback or critique at the multimedia post entitled 🎼🎹—THE—🎹—LAST—🎹—RAG—🎹🎵🎶 featuring animated moths/butterflies, SoundEagle🦅 will once again be so obliged and delighted that another bespoke comment will be delivered to you in style.
In any case, may the music and poem there bring you some creative “distractions” or “diversions” amidst the disruptions and woes engendered by the viral pandemic! Please enjoy to your heart’s content.
Yours sincerely,
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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Insect-plant coevolution is a long-standing interest of mine, although never directly a subject of my research. I’m glad that you enjoyed the results of our effort!
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I liked your beautiful and profound poem, with its lepidopteran imagery, and also appreciated the spectacular photograph of what I believe is a Polyphemus moth, native to much of North America, that accompanied this poem on youir website. Since early childhood, I have been fascinated by the subtly beautiful colouration of many night-flying moths, and this species provides a wonderful example. I was wondering whether you could tell me the source of this photograph.
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I will gave a look, it was a beautiful photograph. Thank you for your very kind words.
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Really detailed and sound research!
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Coevolution is a common mechanism in nature because it presents many advantages to the organisms (but also comes with strings attached). It’s a way to avoid competition (https://bit.ly/316qlDH), find a niche and coexisit. Your example of V. cornigera avoiding competition because of their relationship with ants perfectly illustrates this. The science is fascinating and very extensive. I am so happy that I have delved so deep into the topic (I don’t know if you are an ecologist or environmental scientist. If you aren’t this is even more impressive!)
Great job again, SoundEagle 😀
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Another bespoke acknowledgement is due to you for perusing and commenting on this expansive post, in which you have shown a considerable interest. Thank you for your complimenting SoundEagle🦅 (and by extension, Dr Craig Eisemann), on the quality and magnitude of the research effort entailed in producing the work, which in parts has even ventured far beyond the purview of answering the research question to include a detailed summary of the academic environment and corporate culture facing contemporary scholars.
In resonating with Dr Craig Eisemann who has promptly replied to your comment, SoundEagle🦅 would like to inform you belatedly that this post has a tripartite structure comprising 🥀🦋 ❀ Entrée ❀ 🐝🌺, 🌿🐜 ✿ Main Course ✿ 🐛🍃 and 🌻🐝 ❀ Desserts ❀ 🐞🍂. SoundEagle🦅 is responsible for the Entrée and Desserts, whereas Dr Craig Eisemann for the Main Course.
Given your professional background and interest, you are very welcome to make further perusals and comments here as you inspect and ingest the three-course offering to your heart’s content.
Speaking of insects, the musical and multimedia post entitled 🎼🎹—THE—🎹—LAST—🎹—RAG—🎹🎵🎶 features animated moths/butterflies plus music and poem to bring you some creative “distractions” or “diversions” amidst the disruptions and woes engendered by the viral pandemic. Please enjoy.
Yours sincerely,
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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Saurab Babu, I am glad that you appreciated our efforts! I have studied ecology at undergraduate level (many years ago), but chose insect behaviour and sensory physiology as my field of research, and later moved on to participate in an unsuccessful attempt to develop a vaccine to protect sheep against myiasis-producing blowflies. SoundEagle (who wrote the long introduction to this post) does not have a comparable background in biology, but having already mastered several diverse fields of knowledge, was well able to research and compose this contribution.
I have visited your website, and am impressed both by your aspiration to provide education in a range of environmental sciences, and by your achievement in creating a diverse and well-presented learning resource. I wish you every success for your vital endeavours in the future.
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You have managed to collect a TREMENDOUS amount of information on coevolution, SoundEagle! I find the relationship between plants and animals fascinating. For me, the beauty of the natural world reflects God’s own. Thank you for the education. Stay safe and well. 🙂
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Hello Anna,
We are grateful that you have read and appreciated our efforts. I began my research career with a study of insect responses to stimuli (mainly chemical) from their host plants and have been interested in insect-plant relationships ever since, although my research subsequently took other directions.
My contribution to this post was confined mainly to writing the text and finding some illustrations for the second part, while SoundEagle wrote the long introduction, found many additional illustrations (some not presently accessible, unfortunately) and was responsible for the design and layout of the whole post.
We wish you all the best for the future, and hope that you will be similarly interested in future posts on this website.
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🥀🌺Plants 🔄 Insects🐝🦋
💖 Dear Anna 💝
SoundEagle🦅 is delighted by your frequenting and commenting on this co-authored work, a substantial research undertaking to highlight the far-reaching ramifications of mutualism and evolutionary partnership, as much as this post has been the result of a similar kind between two intellectuals bound by enduring friendship and comparable interests.
This post has a tripartite structure comprising 🥀🦋 ❀ Entrée ❀ 🐝🌺, 🌿🐜 ✿ Main Course ✿ 🐛🍃 and 🌻🐝 ❀ Desserts ❀ 🐞🍂. SoundEagle🦅 is responsible for the Entrée and Desserts, whereas Dr Craig Eisemann for the Main Course.
Please feel free to make further perusals and comments here to your heart’s content as you savour the three-course offering.
May you feel Younger than Springtime in September!
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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Wow I love this 😍
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We are pleased when we can provide a pleasurable, as well as an educational, experience for our readers. Both authors increased their knowledge considerably in preparing their respective contributions to this post. It was a new departure for SoundEagle, who does not have a formal background in biological sciences, and while I have worked professionally as a biologist, evolutionary biology, although a long-standing interest of mine, was never part of my research.
We apologize for the fact that many of the images originally included in the Gallery section are currently not available.
Thank you for your interest in, and attention to, our work.
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Thank you and keep up the great work!
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Hey, Sound Eagle. Have a blessed rest of the summer!
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Useful content and well written by a maestro
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We are glad that our work has been of use to you, and are grateful for the compliment.
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Another endlessly intriguing post. As I was once upon a time a biology major, the topic of co-evolution holds great interest for me. You, SoundEagle, and Craig Eisemann are excellent collaborators!
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Fascinating. Amber ❤🙏
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As co-author of this post, I am pleased that you found it to be of interest, and hope that you will also enjoy some forthcoming posts on this website.
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This is a very informative post. Thank you for liking so many of my comments.
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It seems as if the answer to the question “Do Plants and Insects Coevolve?” is far from a simple “yes” or “no.” There are many factors to consider and many distinctions to be made in understanding the question and its answer. I appreciate your care and diligence in exploring them.
Although it may not be apparent from the title, this post also offers a wealth of information for orchid lovers.
I just wanted to let you know that many of the images are currently replaced by “Image not found”:
“Orchid (Dracula lafleurii) flower with pollinator flies, Ecuador”
“King Spider Orchid (Caladenia pectinata) being visited by male parasitic wasp pollinator which is attracted to the flower by faux female wasp pheromone, Australia” (and many subsequent)
“Pair of marsh fritillary butterflies (Euphydrayas aurinia) resting on a heath orchid flower (Dactylorhiza fuchsii) in the countryside of Devonshire” (and subsequent)
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On the balance of accumulated data and empirical research in evolutionary biology, the answer seems to lean quite substantially towards the affirmative. Thank you for complimenting SoundEagle🦅 (and by extension, Dr Craig Eisemann) on the care and diligence in exploring the “many factors to consider and many distinctions to be made in understanding the question and its answer”.
Perhaps your own interest in the question “Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? 🥀🐝🌺🦋” is in no small part due to the recent publication of your trilogy entitled “Plant Intelligence and the Imaginal Realm” comprising “Part I—Perceiving Gaia”, “Part II—Making America Great Again” and “Part III—Learning to Trust Yourself”.
Please be informed that this post has a tripartite structure comprising 🥀🦋 ❀ Entrée ❀ 🐝🌺, 🌿🐜 ✿ Main Course ✿ 🐛🍃 and 🌻🐝 ❀ Desserts ❀ 🐞🍂. SoundEagle🦅 is responsible for the Entrée and Desserts, whereas Dr Craig Eisemann for the Main Course.
SoundEagle🦅 has been aware of the missing images for more than a year or two, and will endeavour to resurrect them once a certain post composed by Dr Eisemann is fully formatted and published on this website by SoundEagle🦅 later in the year or early next year.
Given your professional background and interest, you are very welcome to make further perusals and comments here as you inspect and ingest the three-course offering to your heart’s content. Furthermore, SoundEagle🦅 is really curious to know what you thought of the digression into a detailed summary of the academic environment and corporate culture facing contemporary scholars.
Speaking of insects, the musical and multimedia post entitled 🎼🎹—THE—🎹—LAST—🎹—RAG—🎹🎵🎶 features animated moths/butterflies plus music and poem to bring you some creative “distractions” or “diversions” amidst the disruptions and woes engendered by the viral pandemic. Please enjoy them in full.
Your observation or conclusion that “this post also offers a wealth of information for orchid lovers” is appreciated. Moreover, you will be pleased to know that you can assess four other plant-oriented websites created and managed by SoundEagle🦅:
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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Reblogged this on worldtraveller70.
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Reblogged this on worldtraveller70.
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[…] Source: Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? 🥀🐝🌺🦋 | SoundEagle 🦅ೋღஜஇ […]
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A wonderful read, and a thoughtful exposition, much for me to ponder.
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We are glad that you appreciated our efforts, and as always are pleased that this post stimulated your thinking about the information presented and its implications.
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It sure did.
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species have hollow thorns and pores at the bases of their leaves that secrete nectar (see image at right). These hollow thorns are the exclusive nest-site of some species of ant that drink the nectar. But the ants are not just taking advantage of the plant they also defend their acacia plant against herbivores.
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What an interesting question. Thanks for making me think!
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Thank you once again for your amazing productivity, creativity and research. Um… what do you do in your spare time? 🙂
I am horrified by those Orchid hunters. What greed can do!
Since humans and insects have coevolved, and plants and insects have coevolved, and humans and plants, it seems to me that one could write a pretty good nursery rhyme with this theme.
🙂
Bob
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Hello Bob,
As SoundEagle’s co-author on this post, I am grateful for your attention to our efforts.
It would be interesting if you could devise a nursery rhyme on your suggested theme and contribute it here.
I apologize for the unavailability of most of the images that were originally in the Gallery; we have not yet found the time to replace them.
Best wishes
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This is an extensive and well researched post on co-evolution. There are some really nice examples highlighted in terms of pollination and seed dispersal mutualisms. And a great gallery of resources to draw on for further reading. Certainly leaves open other options for topic areas in the biological sciences – is runaway sexual evolution next?
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Thank you for taking the time to peruse this post and to compliment SoundEagle🦅 and Dr Craig Eisemann here. Also appreciated is your acknowledgement on LinkedIn that “[t]he nice thing about [this] site is the in-depth treatment of topics”, based on your observation or conclusion on the quality and features that you have so far experienced at the website.
Circumventing the many restrictions and conventions imposed by academic journals whose contents are often hidden behind paywalls, self-publishing certainly presents numerous advantages, which, when combined with the dynamic nature of a blog post offering contents that can be freely viewed and shared by visitors and commenters, are attractive to the likes of us who have been inveterate teachers and communicators. Accordingly, this post has a tripartite structure comprising 🥀🦋 ❀ Entrée ❀ 🐝🌺, 🌿🐜 ✿ Main Course ✿ 🐛🍃 and 🌻🐝 ❀ Desserts ❀ 🐞🍂. SoundEagle🦅 is responsible for the Entrée and Desserts, whereas Dr Craig Eisemann for the Main Course.
SoundEagle🦅 and Dr Craig Eisemann have been cognizant of the missing images for more than a year or two, and will endeavour to resurrect them once a certain post composed by Dr Eisemann is fully formatted, illustrated, animated and published on this website by SoundEagle🦅 later in the year.
Given your professional background and interest, you are very welcome to make further perusals and comments here as you inspect and ingest the three-course offering to your heart’s content. Furthermore, SoundEagle🦅 is really curious to know what you thought of the digression into a detailed summary of the academic environment and corporate culture facing contemporary scholars.
This post belongs to the category entitled Facing the Noise & Music, under which the following posts have also been classified and listed in reverse chronological order:
Happy mid-September to you!
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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Thanks Sound Eagle
Yes I agree blog posts are good way to get academic ideas out there, but particularly to summarise thoughts for a more general audience. Which can also be an important synthesis of ideas and thoughts, which may be weeded out in the submission of a full academic paper.
Publishing in the academic literature does however make sure that article are independently referred and so they remain the quality milestone of new work.
Blog posting and academic literature publishing can and should go hand in hand though.
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We are more or less in agreement here. Apart from the accessibility of academic works as mentioned earlier, there are many other extant issues that remain to be addressed. Academic papers published in most if not all conventional journals tend to be highly limited in scope, format and feature, mostly presented in monochrome or greyscale and rarely in colour; cannot include large or complicated illustrations, maps, charts, schematics and/or statistics; unable to incorporate audiovisual contents, videos, animations, pop-ups, hyperlinks, comments, revisions, extensions, user interfaces and other real-time, dynamic or interactive components, let alone social media integration; and ill-suited or ill-prepared to deal with highly innovative, interdisciplinary and/or multidisciplinary works, not to mention that there continue to be few or no referees and reviewers qualified or knowledgeable enough to evaluate them properly and cogently without intellectual oversight and bias.
Let us examine just one example regarding pop-ups. In this website, tooltips, a form of pop-ups, also deliver full bibliographical information. Considering that certain 📑Posts and Pages📃 are very long and extensive, the provision of tooltips as a way of implementing citations using the combination of on-demand, in-situ pop-up references and hyperlinks is a matter of prudence and practicality to dispense with the overly expansive space that would otherwise be required to accommodate a bibliography or reference list whose entries are in the hundreds, which would have made any one of the already lengthy 📑Posts and Pages📃 even longer.
Other insidious matters regarding conventional publication of academic papers have also been discussed by SoundEagle🦅 in a number of academically written posts. The following are just a few chosen excerpts to highlight some of these matters. The first set is taken from the multidisciplinary book-length post entitled 💬 Misquotation Pandemic and Disinformation Polemic: 🧠 Mind Pollution by Viral Falsity 🦠 published with multipronged analyses under the following categories: Behavioural Science, Cognitive Science, Critical Thinking, Cultural Studies, Environmentalism, Epistemology, Ethics, Evolutionary Biology, Evolutionary Psychology, Facing the Noise & Music, History, Human Nature, Information Science, Journalism, Logic, Media Studies, Philosophy, Political Science, Psychology, Quotes, Science, Social Media and Social Science:
The second set is sourced from an equally multidisciplinary but even lengthier post entitled The Quotation Fallacy “💬”:
There is a decent, illuminating account from a prolific academic by the name of Peter Cameron, who, like you, also maintains a blog. After having decades of experience in academic publication, he has decided to write a detailed summary and stocktaking in a post entitled “Publication: an author’s view”, in which he concludes as follows:
Looking forward to be enlightened by your thoughts and experiences on these matters!
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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Hello Prof. Lowe,
Apologies for the late reply. The next post in which I have some involvement will bear some relevance to (human) evolutionary biology and psychology, but regrettably none to sexual evolution, human or otherwise.
Evolutionary biology in general is a long-standing interest of mine, and insect-plant relationships, particularly insect sensory physiology and behaviour as it relates to selection of host plants, constituted my original research speciality before I turned, of necessity, to other fields of research.
Both co-authors of the present post learned a good deal about insect-plant coevolution while preparing for it, and it is just possible, although not likely, that we may return to this topic at some time in the future.
Please accept my best wishes and thanks for the interest that you have shown in our work.
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How fascinating! I never really thought about coevolution before, but of course it makes perfect sense. Thanks for teaching me about this interesting topic. : )
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Iím amazed, I have to admit. Seldom do I encounter a blog thatís equally educative and interesting, and let me tell you, you’ve hit the nail on the head. The problem is something that not enough people are speaking intelligently about. Now i’m very happy that I came across this in my hunt for something regarding this.
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An interesting discussion is worth comment. I think that you ought to publish more about this subject, it may not be a taboo subject but usually people do not discuss such topics. To the next! Many thanks!!
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You’re so awesome! I don’t think I have read through anything like that before. So great to discover someone with some unique thoughts on this issue. Really.. thank you for starting this up. This site is one thing that’s needed on the internet, someone with a bit of originality!
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[…] 2016 […]
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[…] Continue to find out more: Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? […]
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Like lots of other articles of yours very interesting, though this time there were many pictures not available to be seen. Perhaps also something to think about (for the future) is to split the articles in several postings, so that you can catch more people who will be able to read the posts in parts at times when they have time, so that they would not click it away after some minutes of reading, without having it fully read..
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Thank you for your interest in our post. The authors are aware that many images, especially in the Gallery, have not been available for some time, and hope to address this in the near future.
As regards splitting of articles, both authors are inclined to think that, given the fairly detailed menus that are provided at the beginning and end of long posts, readers could conveniently resume reading from where they had left off on an earlier occasion. This arrangement allows greater cohesion and connectivity among parts of posts that are intended to be grasped as a whole, rather than as a series of disconnected aspects of the topics that are dealt with.
Please accept my apologies for the late reply.
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Thank you very much for your reply. Concerning the lateness of the reply, do not worry, better a reply than none. We, too, have to face hundreds of e-mails per day, and follow several blogs and articles, so that it often can take some time before they got answered or that we react on some writing.
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Excellent post. This is something I had not really thought about before.
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Thanks for the post. It was highly informative and a pleasure to read. Have a nice day!
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[…] askedDo Plants and Insects Coevolve? 🥀🐝🌺🦋it is time to […]
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Hi SoundEagle, one more aspect: I think that all organisms which have sexual reproduction coevolve with themselves, or rather, different genes that can be recombined in sexual reproduction (or even parts of genes that can be recombined in crossing over events) co-evolve. We could think of those genes or parts of genes as species that together produce a phenotype and co-evolve. Such a co-evolution might start with a week coupling between them and then they could together “zoom in” on a novel solution to an evolutionary problem.
I had this idea when I read an article (many years ago, I think in Scientific American, but I don’t remember exactly) about wind polinated plants, where the shape of the femal flowers and the shape of the pollen caught by them literally filtered out each other in a process of co-evolution of different parts of the same genome. So features within one species that fit together can amplify each other and lead to a new combined phenotype, leading to features of the phenotype in which several or many genes contribute. I even think that learned features might become part of such a phenotype (e.g. a learnt route of a migratory bird might become a factore that filters out genes contributing to its “hard-wiring” in the brain, as a kind of “virutal phenotype” without a genetic basis). This “learned phenotype” could then become part of the phenotypical coupling of a group of genes.
(I noticed you liked some of my comments on different web sites. I am planning to restart blogging “soon” (sometime next year, probably)(, on wordpress or elsewhere, and I will let you know then since you seem to be interested. Meanwhile, you can look for some articles I wrote on the journal “Borderless Philosophy”. Look there fore Andreas Keller (in the editions BP2 (2019) to BP5 (2022), I have contributions in all four editions.)
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Dear Nannus,
This is an interesting and plausible idea. Certainly, genes within a population could be selected according to how effectively they complement each other to enhance the fitness of the phenotype. Such a process could lead to a gradual refinement of parts of the organism in relation to their function as organs (for example) and as components of a viable integrated whole, as natural selection drives genetic and phenotypic change towards maximal efficiency and hence fitness of organisms within the population.
I note your suggestion that learned behaviours (such as following specific migration routes) could initiate a genetic selection process whereby they eventually become encoded in the genome. This idea seems consistent with the theory of natural selection, and so is also a valuable and plausible contribution.
Best wishes
Craig Eisemann
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[…] – The co-evolution of plants and insects https://soundeagle.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/do-plants-and-insects-coevolve/ […]
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[…] Do Plants and Insects Coevolve? 🥀🐝🌺🦋 […]
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Ha You used up all my reading time for the day! Knowing the lifecycles of insects got me my first post college job poisoner. What are your thoughts on the effects of micro poisons such as Pyrethrins and CO2. got to run
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Thank you for taking the time to read our post.
Pyrethrins are among the least toxic insecticides to mammals, and natural pyrethrins, at least, quickly break down in the environment. However, I think that the use of all insecticides should be kept to a minimum. Most of my research career was devoted to studying possible alternatives to insecticides for pest control.
I’m not sure that I understand your meaning in including carbon dioxide in this context. Would you like to elaborate on this point?
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I have to assume your research into alternatives was motivated due to the sub-acute effects of toxins in the environment. CO2 is a sub-acute toxin that has doubled in the environment in the last 50 years. In higher organism this rapidity hard to absorb and I wonder if the effects on brain chemistry might be similar to Pb and Pyrethrins. I speculate that this might explain the uptick in violence.
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My research into alternatives to insecticides was motivated by both ecological concerns (effects on non-target organisms) and the possibility of as yet unknown sub-acute effects on humans.
I do not think that, in most situations, ambient levels of carbon dioxide (at present, an average of just less than 420 parts per million in atmospheric air) are a cause for concern, at least as regards direct effects on human health. For comparison, exhaled human breath contains about 38,000 parts per million of carbon dioxide as a result of normal metabolic processes. Effects of this gas on global climates and the acidity of the oceans are a different matter, of course.
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Darwin’s insights have always captivated me, especially his identification of carnivorous plants as a pioneering discovery. From a young age, I’ve cultivated numerous types of these fascinating plants. My lifelong passion for botany has led me to study the field extensively. Currently, my home’s landscape is adorned with hundreds of hydrangeas. Growing up in a family that farmed around 50,000 acres, the principles of cohabitation and coexistence were fundamental to our approach. Within the realm of soybeans, the process of nitrogen fixation is facilitated by the bacterium Bradyrhizobia japonicum. This symbiotic relationship allows the plant to acquire nitrogen, while the bacteria gain the energy necessary for their growth and development.
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Thank you for submitting your very first comment to this academically written post, which has a tripartite structure comprising 🥀🦋 ❀ Entrée ❀ 🐝🌺, 🌿🐜 ✿ Main Course ✿ 🐛🍃 and 🌻🐝 ❀ Desserts ❀ 🐞🍂. SoundEagle🦅 is responsible for the Entrée and Desserts, whereas Dr Craig Eisemann for the Main Course. Given your background and interest, you are very welcome to make further perusals and comments here as you savour the three-course offering to your heart’s content. Furthermore, SoundEagle🦅 is considerably curious to know what you thought of the extensive digression into a detailed summary of the academic environment and corporate culture facing contemporary scholars in relation to your own experiences in these regards.
Speaking of insects, the musical and multimedia post entitled 🎼🎹—THE—🎹—LAST—🎹—RAG—🎹🎵🎶 features animated moths/butterflies plus SoundEagle🦅’s original music and poem to bring you some creative “distractions” or “diversions”, given that you like listening to music and appreciating poetry. Printable music scores and high-resolution videos are also available to you there.
Your observation or conclusion that “Darwin’s insights have always captivated [you], especially his identification of carnivorous plants as a pioneering discovery” as well as your “lifelong passion for botany” are both appreciated and admirable. Given your penchant and orientation, you will be pleased to be informed that you can assess four other plant-oriented websites created and managed by SoundEagle🦅:
There has been no shortage of scientists who are or were religious. Moreover, regardless of the degree to which some scientists are religious or atheistic, it is very unfortunate that too often even those who claim to believe in and adopt the scientific method still cherrypick the data and refuse to examine contrary evidences. They fail to understand and address many valid points, perspectives, domains and dimensions, and hence it is impossible for them to evaluate and change their standpoints, approaches and behaviours. You might have heard of this quote:
Indeed, there are evolutionary bases in people’s sense of morality and in their behaviours as well as in their religiosity. You will find a great deal of new understandings in multidisciplinary fields such as sociobiology, evolutionary psychology and behavioural sciences, epigenetics, brain and cognitive sciences, gene-culture coevolution, and many more. The following is an extensive and analytical post with a catchy title. It provides a multidisciplinary analysis and overview regarding human nature and other salient matters harbouring profound implications and existential ramifications. SoundEagle🦅 is hereby recommending it to you insofar as it deserves to be perused and critiqued by someone of your intellectual calibre and philosophical persuasion. For your convenience, clicking the large title below will instantly transport you to the said post:
ჱܓSoundEagle🦅
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Dear Kenn,
As an author, it is always gratifying for me to attract the interest of people who have an enthusiasm for the natural world and biological processes. The example that you gave of a symbiotic association between the soybean plant and Bradyrhizobium is an excellent illustration of a coevolutionary relationship, in this case between a plant and a bacterium.
I have a long-standing interest in the relationship between plants and phytophagous insects, and my earliest research was concerned with an aspect of this.
Best wishes for your present and future botanical studies.
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